I am highly impressed. But then, I am highly impressionable. Probably because I go through life as does a a child: in wonderment, and with not an effing clue as to what's really going on.
I updated my Facebook status, and I stuck the word "corduroy" on the end. In quotes, like that.* And you know how Facebook slaps a period on the end of the status sentence? Well, it did. Within the quotation.
Peter is upset he had to look up how to spell the word "corduroy."
Oh, gods be praised. Somebody has been educated. I would like to find that person at Facebook, shake their hand, and give them a medal. And a kiss on the cheek. Maybe a little tongue. Because the Internet, without being prompted, has managed to pull off a tricky bit of grammar that would have thrown most college graduates.
Excelsior** to you, anonymous Facebook developer.
* Why? Shutup. I'll tell you when you *need* to know, you little twerp. Think you can knock me off my train of thought? Huh! This train's boilers are stoked, the tracks are long, parallel, and unwinding, and the passengers are sitting down to a comfortable and affordable supper with a view of the countryside spread before them like like an all-you-can-eat buffet.
** Well, blow me down. Did you know "excelsior" can also mean a kind of upholstery stuffing? Not the most unadulterated adjective of praise to use, then, but I can't be bothered to change it.
Excelsior...isn't it also that sweet fruity glop with mini marshmallows? Oh, wait, that's ambrosia. Dear me.
Ok, I'll bite. Within the "quotations." Or "without". Still stumped.
In fact, from a more logical standpoint, the period should really go "without" in this case, since the speaker is not saying a sentence, like "Peter said, 'In quotations.'", but rather that something should be in "quotations".
Makes no sense. Only insofar as there could be, on occasion, need for puncuation inside the quotation. As in, "Peter shouted, 'Within the quotations!'". I can understand the issue with having extra puncuation and dropping the final stop, since it saves a lot of characters, and the context of the sentence implies a stop.
But there are really two stops required, one for what Peter shouted (assuming that he shouted something that required a stop, maybe he's still mumbling, I don't know), and one describing the action of jumping up and down that Peter undertook.
So Facebook got it wrong.
This post has been removed by the author.
see here:
"In American English the full stop normally comes before the quotation mark."
But being as we speak Canadian english, which may follow American English on this come to think of it.
Oxford University Press
Here is the quote on punctuation and quotations from Ion Lad's Oxford University Press Canada link:
In general, periods (full points) and commas are placed inside the closing quotation marks; semi-colons and colons are placed outside. However, if a single word or short phrase in quotation marks ends the clause or sentence, the punctuation is logically placed after the quotation marks:
Its smoky atmosphere gained Victorian Edinburgh the sobriquet, `Auld Reekie'.
This would imply that, in Canada, my corduroy example should in fact have the full point placed *outside* the quotations, because only the word "corduroy" was in quotes.
But Facebook is, above all, an American application. So Beth is correct:
The traditional convention in American English is for commas and periods to be included inside the quotation marks, even if they are not part of the quoted sentence. (source: Wikipedia)
In the end, I think we can all agree that I was overjoyed for the wrong reasons. In America, correct usage and a medal. In Canada, smack on head.
Mmmm... I like ambrosia.
This has just settled an argument that's been going on in my head for at least ten years. Glad I was right. :P
This post has been bothering me for days, but I hadn't had time to come back to comment on it. But I see that my argument has already been made.
But don't feel bad, Peter. I'm still on your side. ;)
And here's a bit of (unverified) historical context from http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html:
Anyway, the point is that if you are an American, you need to keep your commas and periods inside your closing quotation marks, where they belong.*
________________________
* And just why, you may ask, do they belong there? Well, it seems to be the result of historical accident. When type was handset, a period or comma outside of quotation marks at the end of a sentence tended to get knocked out of position, so the printers tucked the little devils inside the quotation marks to keep them safe and out of trouble. But apparently only American printers were more attached to convenience than logic, since British printers continued to risk the misalignment of their periods and commas.
Now that I'm looking for it, I've actually noticed a difference in the grammar used by a lot of the British authors I read.
Oh, and I don't think grammaer nazis are supposed to take vacations, they're supposed to hang around, perusing blogs and Facebook pages and what not and correcting punctuation.
Well, technically, MLA style puts the punctuation outside of the quotes unless the punctuation is part of the quote. (i.e., Facebook is wrong)
MLA happens to be what each of the (American) universities that I attended used. Other style guides may differ.
I stumbled across this post...whether or not a period or comma is inside or outside the quote can make a huge difference in precision and understanding within technical and scientific publication. Logical quotation is also commonly used in "International English".
Because I have worked as a technical writer, I prefer the precision of "logical quotation" as the "British" style is referred to in style and grammar manuals. (Think how hard a technical manual can be to install your DVD player, without having to figure out what the markup (i.e., punctuation) makes the instructions "mean" versus "say".) I think of logical quotation usage as similar to recommended usage for mark up languages. I.e., is preferred over . Thus "without". Not "within."
However, for most Americans who are writing locally, the imprecision is acceptable and more a matter of style than "right" or "wrong".
My pet peeve is when people tell me that correct logical quotation usage is "wrong". ;-p
OK, in the example above, the HTML code disappeared.
In this sentence: "I.e., is preferred over ."
I'll write it not in HTML: "I.e., 'italic_tag | anchor_tag | end_anchor_tag | end_italic_tag' is preferred over 'italic_tag | anchor_tag | end_italic_tag' | end_anchor_tag'."
Hope that makes more sense.
(Both will work, unless you validate the code, but the former version is preferred over the latter.)